Friday, October 17, 2008
Post #6 from Melissa Brooks
In "The Genius of Laurence Sterne," Hartley says Sterne has been "acclaimed a great force for Romanticism" (499). Hartley says that if Sterne has indeed been this force, it is "chiefly because he seemed to elevate Feeling above Reason" (499). Do you think the novel Tristram Shandy elevates feeling above reason--why or why not? Or, do you think this book emulates Romanticism in other ways? Do you find either feeling or reason more valuable, both in your personal life and in literature?
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18 comments:
J.J.B response to Melissa B. post:
First of all, I think you have to look at each character because, in my view, there are characters in this book that represent each point of view. Mr. Shandy for instance is a very reasonable charcter, yes he lets his emotions run wild, but that usually happens when one of the other characters dismisses his reasoning. Mrs. Shandy on the other hand is a very "feelings" oriented character who dispite her husbands strong objections as to how she goes about giving birth to Tristram lets her overall feelings, with some reason, dictate how she goes about the birth. It all depends upon which character you analyze which brings me to the book overall. I think that this is a feeling above reason narrative. Despite the mass explaination & reasoning by Tristram in this book it is still, above all else, a personal narrative by Tristram and most personal narratives are based on feelings and/or emmotions. As for me I do my best to listen to my feelings and/or emmotions as much as I can, both in my life and with my writing, but without my reasoning to control them and essentially myself I fear I would be out of control.
Kristine's Response to Melissa B's post:
Tristram Shandy, while emotion and reason both play an important part, is more emotionally stimulated. For example, looking at Mr. Shandy's digressions and arguments, they are usually stemmed by some sort of emotion (his response to the breaking of Tristram's nose is stimulated by anger and sadness - anger at Dr. Slop for breaking Tristram's nose and sadness, or disappointment because the members of his family characteristically have small noses). Tristram, on the other hand, focuses more on reason than emotion, however, his reasoning is often questionable and difficult to follow, as his digressions are long, drawn out, and often have nothing to do with the story's plot. In my personal life, I am primarily driven by emotion, however, I fall back on reasoning to make sure that I am not steered in the wrong direction by overpowering emotions. Literature often contains characters motivated by emotion more than reason, which often, in my opinion, builds a more interesting story.
Interesting question, Melissa. I do think the book "elevates feeling above reason" though the reason it discounts is phony expertise or pompous verbiage from pseudo-experts. It is not exclamatory, however, as are the poems of most Romantic poets (Shelley, Byron, Keats, Wordsworth). And it doesn't vaunt imagination in the way that most Romantics did. Paula
Paula to Kristine--
Interesting self-reflection, Kristine, in which you say you think you are more driven by emotion than reason but that you then use reason to analyze and possibly correct emotional response. I would say that Uncle Toby and Trim are more driven by emotion than Mr.Shandy, however--Shandy bypasses emotion by his ridiculous abstractions. When he hears of his older son's death, he goes off on a digression while others are profoundly moved. For a few moments, Mr. Shandy forgets of his son's death.
Paula to J.J.B.
Isn't it odd, though, that Mr. Shandy seems to have no positive feelings about sex and sexuality? And no, that was NOT common in literature from the Eighteenth Century, often very racy.
The book as a whole deals more with feeling than reason in my opinion. I honestly don't find much reason (although yes I do admit there is some) yet the reason seems to be completely all over the place and hard to actually grasp at times. The tangents that are within the novel take away from reason that, I think, would come through much clearer if there were none (or at least less). I think that that would change the entire perception of the book as a whole. I have always found reason to be more important both in literature and personal life. Reason is something that is tangible whereas feelings and emotions are extremely "grey area" and I have always liked things to be very "black and white" even in literature. I don't mind searching for it, yet I always find myself in that search to point out the reason.
I think we are forced to deal with feeling over reason throughout this novel. I don't know if feeling is necessarily more valuable, but it is what forces most of the tangents which Tristram meanders down. It is hard to say this is a true Romantic novel because there is so much that conflicts with traditional Romantic values such as the "unnatural" means of his birth and disfigurement and a lack of sensibility throughout this whole narrative. This does emphasize the individual and poet as a "man of genius" which are hallmarks of Romanticism, but I think the other aspects are just as important. As far as my own life, I strive to have a balance between feeling and reason. Either extreme is usually detrimental to overall good health. If I had to pick, I think feeling lasts longer than a bunch of reasonable decisions, but I don't consider that to always be better.
Melissa B.'s response JJ A.:
I agree with you that it is important to balance feeling and reason and that extremes are detrimental to health. In general, I think that extremist attitudes hinder personal health. Looking at most forms of prejudice for instance, demonstrates this idea--you take white supremacy, an extreme notion to say the least, and it is extremely dangerous. it leads to violence, discrimination, murder, and prevents harmonious relationships and living, particularly for the person holding those extremist attitudes.
Melissa B.'s response to Kristine:
I think I tend to be the same way as you Kristine, where often I feel driven by my emotions but try to check them with reason. I almost don't trust my emotions, which I'm not sure if it's because I view myself as being overly sensitive, or if I simply view reason as a more practical and appropriate means to live my life. But like I said in my response to JJ, I do think it is important to balance the two. With excessive emotion, we may act irrationally and do things that really are not in our best interest. excessive reason though, seems as though it could lead to a life of deprivation, in that it seems you wouldn't enjoy life so much because you'd be denying your feelings and probably not allowing yourself to relax, possibly viewing it as frivolous.
the book definitely does not reflect reason; just look at the way it was written! it is an emotional text written by an emotional individual who wanted to present a piece of humor that poo-pooed the conventions and pretentious parties of the day. both reason and feeling are valued for me. in regard to literary works, i believe that each should be adequately represented. No good thing in life exists in a state of imbalance. pretty much like jjb said at the end of his reflection.
in response to mel p...
do you find that you're need for the concreteness of 'black and white' is indicative of a fear of loss of control if feelings dominate?
in response to melissa b....
supremacists, now there's an exciting bunch! they run off of emotion sure enough because their ideology definitely ain't logical! however, would you say that many then use reasoning to justify their beliefs and actions? this makes me wonder, can one's reasoning be tainted by their feelings, and vice a versa? just throwin' somethin' out there.
J.J.B's response to Paula
Paula, I assume that you were talking about my assertion that this was, by Tristram, a personal narrative based on feelings & emmotions and that reason was secondary. If so, isn't possible, and I'm just asking, that Tristram was defying the norm of the times so he could tell his story? If you were talking about my assertion that Mr. Shandy is a reasonable character above an emmotional one, then of course he wouldn't have any positive feelings about sex because he approaches it like everything else, with reason. He looks at sex from a societal standpoint and, as you stated, 18th century society never looked positively on sex. I guess I'm confused over what you were trying to tell me with your response?
J.J.B's response to Melissa P:
I pretty much agree with your assertion that the excessive number of tangents take away from the resoning of the story. However, for me some tangents are still necessary because they do provide, for lack of a better term, a road map to understanding the reasoning behind this book better, but yea there are definitly too many of them and they throw us off the story.
Paula to J.J.B.--
No, what I said was that 18th Century British novels and plays WERE very racy, not that they were not. When you said that Mr. Shandy "lets his emotions run wild" were you not talking about Walter Shandy?
JJA's response to Kristine:
I try to distance myself from my emotions as much as possible because reason seems so much safer to deal with for me. At this point in my life that is what helps me deal with reality on its terms. I can think back to when I was younger and emotion ran the show. Even now though, it is hard to say which is better. I mean without emotion and passion, there is little in life that is important. Tristram makes fun of the lawyers, doctors, church officials and even his father and their hobby-horses which detract from living life. Even when Bobby dies, it seems like Mr. Shandy is trying to twist that event to fit in with his beliefs that Bobby will bring prosperity to the family name. I think Tristram is straddling the fence between reason and emotion and recognizes that each is necessary for a complete story to be told.
JJA's response to Melissa B. and JF:
Racists of all stripes usually rely on a powerful blend of reason tied to emotion. For instance, Aryans and 5%ers both claim their genetic superiority through a strange blend of science, divine interpretation and a healthy dose of hate mixed with ignorance. They choose what they wish to acknowledge as real and true based on what furthers their agendas, relying on reason or emotion depending on what's convenient. Mr. Shandy is sort of like this as he can pontificate on what kind of method of birth is more appropriate instead of actually getting involved in Tristram's birth or formulating a plan of education instead of actually educating his son. Mr. Shandy bends reality to reflect his ideas instead of dealing with reality as it is. It is a stretch to say he shares this thinking with only racists, but there are some definite similarities between the two.
Kristine’s Response to J.F.:
I find your comment that “no good thing in life exists in a state of imbalance” interesting in that it describes my frustration with Tristram Shandy. If the book was rewritten with solely the plot-driven portions included (ie Tristram’s birth and it’s mishaps, etc.) and all of his digressions were omitted, perhaps I would enjoy the book (and understand it more) because it would be balanced. Much like Momento¸that which is not balanced and sequential is difficult to follow, understand, and ultimately appreciate. I would be interested in reading a more “balanced” version of Tristram Shandy; however, it would probably then defeat the purpose of the novel as an innovation.
Kristine’s Response to J.J.B:
I agree that overall, Tristram Shandy is a personal narrative, and as you said, “most personal narratives are based on feelings and/or emotions.” Whenever we write about ourselves, there is generally an emotional feeling within the writing moreso than responses based upon reason. Perhaps the reason that Tristram Shandy is such an impossible novel (for some of us) is because it lacks the necessary reasoning to back up Tristram’s emotional impulses. How would Tristram Shandy be different if more reason (outside of digressions that have nothing to do with the novel itself in terms of plot) were included?
Paula to J.J.A. and Kristine
I think we should focus on a few tangents tomorrow, see what's happening with them, and see whether they really represent feeling more than reason.
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